So the City has posted that they intend to fill the open position on the City Council by March. In order to have a little fun and maybe even encourage someone to run, I open up the nomination process. This should be a fun way to see who people think should be on the Council.
Clearly this has no bearing on who will actually be appointed so let loose and let the ideas flow.
Here are the rules.
1. Name your candidate.
2. Give a reason or two why you think they should be looked at as a possible Councilmember.
3. Be civil.
Thats about it. I open the floor for nominations.
I love this idea. I would like to nominate Thomas. It would be great to have another voice of sanity on the council. Plus it might do the council some good if they had to explain themselves at a public meeting.
ReplyDeleteWell I appreciate the thought I am unable to fill the position because I live outside the city limits.
ReplyDeleteI would like to nominate Matt Higgins. Matt is the co-owner of True Value. I don't know his political stand on most things but I like the idea of having a common sense, experienced and profitable buisnessman on the council.
I have a nomination.
ReplyDeleteSkylar Hansen. He seems to be so involved and has so much free time it would seem to be the perfect fit. Plus it will give him the opportunity to actually put some of his suggestions into place.
But on the flip side he would have to be responsible to the citizens and he would have to actually work with the councilmembers.
You know what? I think that's even a better idea. It would be nice if he was actually responsible for his actions and what he says. Yeah Skylar gets my vote.
Dave
I think Bart should run. He seems to have a good head on his shoulders.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Dave. Mr. Hansen is the obvious choice. He seems to be the only citizen in this town who goes to the effort of actually following the council's agenda.
ReplyDeleteI like Bart for Council also.
ReplyDeleteSkylar worries me a little. First off I don't think he will put his name into consideration and secondly I don't think he has enough to offer the Council.
Thomas,
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you think Skylar will put his name in?
Dave
Well I know that he has been encouraged to run before and he has rejected the idea. While I do not know why, I can only speculate.
ReplyDeleteMost people who are involved on the level that Skylar is, and choose not to run, either do not want the attention, are inadequate to the task or they have some skeleton in the closet that they do not want out.
For all I know Skylar may have a perfectly good reason not to put his name in the hat. But like I said, I do not know why he has not chosen to run before and I can only speculate on the reason.
In the past Skylar seems to have been more interested in being a campaign manager than a council member. He has been effective at that.
ReplyDeleteSkyler has a lot more to offer Duvall than just a campaign manager. Frankly, I think he is sharper than the people he has gotten into office. I'd like to see him step up and represent me instead of the puppets he puts on the council.
ReplyDeleteWhat about putting a former council member on who wouldnt have to be trained about everything. I am in favor of Anne Laughlin. She did a great job when she was there and it would be interesting to see her back on council.
ReplyDeleteI think the former council member is a good idea. Who are the former council members that still live in town? What about people who were on other cities councils? I like the idea of not having the learning period.
ReplyDeleteWhat is Bart's experience in attending council meetings?
ReplyDeleteI will let Bart answer for himself but I would guess it is about the same as every other citizen in town. With the rare exception of the Burhens and a few others who attend regularly.
ReplyDeleteI vote for Bart
ReplyDeleteI would rather have someone on the council with successful P&L experience over previous council experience. Right now the majority of council either have failed businesses or are laid off or previously laid off for extended periods. I have never met a group with such a high rate of unemployment. Doesn't this bother anyone else?
ReplyDeleteI know it bothers me. I don't know for sure who is on the economic development committee but it worries me that these unemployed/failed buisness people are the ones directing the cities economic policies.
ReplyDeleteThat's a really good point. I'd rather have people who are so successful they have little time for city business than people who are so unsuccessful that they have lots of time to devote to council. Take the lessons learned in business and apply to the city.
ReplyDeletewhat does P&L mean?
ReplyDeleteI think it means Profit and Loss.
ReplyDeleteProfit and Loss. It's a business term for budget. If you have P&L experience, you have experience managing a budget. If you don't know what P&L means, you have no business being on council :)
ReplyDeleteDoug
Someone informed me that I have been the subject of some discussion on the current post, so I decided to read the conversation and add a few thoughts. First, though, I'd like to pass along my thanks and appreciation to Glen Kuntz for his 20+ years of service to Duvall's citizens as an elective office holder. His influence as both a Council member and Mayor is to my knowledge unmatched by any other individual in our town's history. Glen leaves big shoes to fill.
ReplyDeleteIt has been my privilege to be acquainted with not only all the current Council members (and a few Mayors) but just as many former members as well. Based on my experience of observing both those who have done well for the constituents whose interests they were elected to represent and those who have failed to live up to their representative potential, I'd like to offer a few simple suggestions to anyone interested in becoming the next appointed Council member.
1) Commit to being fiscally conservative with the taxpayers' dollars as the #1 priority. Given Duvall's limited revenues there is simply no other choice.
2) Recognize that you will be holding a non-partisan office. Small town policy issues often can't be effectively decided on a purely R or D basis. If you take the seat with the conviction that your political ideology--whether it be on the right or the left--will provide all the right answers without any other thought on your part, then you will eventually look like a fool often enough that your more pragmatic Council colleagues will ignore what you have to say.
3) When you find yourself faced with a difficult policy decision, give more consideration to what the choice will likely mean for the town five or ten years in the future rather than just agreeing with the immediate political pressure.
4) Learn quickly that when it come to developers it is your job to look out for the interest of local taxpayers. Whether the housing business is good or bad they will beg you to subsidize the new roads, parks, sewer hookups, etc., then threaten to leave if you don't. Don't worry. Duvall has a good portion of the available building lots in King County. Developers will be back and Duvall will eventually build out--without the need for taxpayer subsidies. Glen Kuntz stood firm on this issue.
5) Work respectfully with the city's staff. They are not your underlings. But also remember that it is the primary duty of the Council to determine policies so that basic services are delivered to the citizens at the most efficient cost.
Good luck to the next Council member.
Skylar Hansen
Sounds to me like Skylar just threw his hat into the ring.
ReplyDeleteIt sounds like he has the experience and and he has all the information to be the best person for the job. It would be a shame for him to deny the citizens the benefit of all his experience.
Skylar - that sounds like pretty solid advice - especially the not giving in to development pressure part.
ReplyDeleteAs for those who think I should run for office - I appreciate the thought, but I don't think I would make a very good candidate for a few reasons:
1 - I work 60 - 70 hours almost every week which would make attending meetings extremely difficult.
2 - My opinions on what Duvall needs to do to survive economically are not particularly popular. If you'll recall past entries on this blog, I would favor putting in things like a Walmart to bring people into town rather than more boutique shops which seem to close rapidly when people have to choose between the $8 beeswax soap or the $1 Ivory soap bar and no longer have a job.
3 - I have applied for a position at a company that is based out of state and would require my moving if I should accept an offer from them.
Bart,
ReplyDelete#3 is the only reason that will let you off the hook - but I'm hoping you turn down the offer. We can't afford to lose anymore reasonable people in Duvall.
As for reason #2 - you can support bringing Walmart all you want, but the government has little to do with that. Fortunately we still live in a market based economy and Walmart doesn't want to come here because we don't have enough buildable land or a sufficient customer base. However, Monroe....
Doug
Skyler does not have all the experience, what are you thinking?? He has no job - society values his contribution so little that he is paid nothing. He's never run a business or a payroll, and has no idea how to successfully run a city. We DO NOT need anymore unemployed people on the council.
ReplyDeleteSo is it true? Is Skylar running?
ReplyDeleteI hope not. His rhetoric sounds nice, but if we've learned anything over the last 2 years: rhetoric is just that and doesn't translate to action or results. Put me down on the side of wanting more successful business experience on the council.
ReplyDeleteSkylar, stay a campaign manager but only if you can stay out of my yard and keep your crap flyers away from my kids. I didn't appreciate having to explain your hate mail to them last election.
Thank you, Thomas, for giving me the opportunity to present my viewpoint on your blog. It seems I need to correct a misconception about my business history. I have been retired for some years from running a successful insurance agency, and currently am fortunate to be able to live off of my investments. As to the criticism leveled at some Council members, as far as I know all six either have a full-time job or are self-employed with business improving since the recession.
ReplyDeleteAgain, thanks.
Skylar Hansen
Skylar,
ReplyDeleteI am glad you are taking part in the discussion.
So the question seems to be are you going to put your experience and expertise to work for the city by applying for the open seat on the city council?
Props to Bart for explaining his situation and commenting on the substance of Mr. Hansen's views. I can understand why some of the rest of you remain anonymous. You just make yourselfs and the blog look silly. Dan
ReplyDeleteDan,
ReplyDeleteNot everyone has the depth of experience. I don't mind the "silly" questions if it helps someone get a better understanding of what is really going on.
Now I will admit that I have put my fair share of comedy (some will say failed comedy) out there. Hopefully people will understand it for what it is. But if not, I could be one of those who are "silly".
I too am wondering what Mr. Hansen's plans are. He seems so involved and so knowledgeable it would likely be a perfect fit.
ReplyDeletedoes anyone know if he has announced his intentions yet?
John
Skyler apparently doesn't know the council as well as he claims too. They do have a high rate of unemployment. Here's the breakdown:
ReplyDelete1. One council member owned an art business in old town and it failed and she closed it
2. One council member was some tree advisor person and that business failed and she's currently unemployed
3. One other council member and the mayor were unemployed most of last year and just recently found jobs
4. One other council member is currently unemployed now
5. Only 2 council members have been steadily employed, and one of those just resigned.
Hey come to think of it, the new mayor pro tem is unemployed. For three years in a row the mayor pro tem has been unemployed. I think that's the qualification. They look at which council member is currently unemployed and he/she gets to be the mayor pro tem.
No, I do not want anymore unemployed people on council making decisions about my taxes and our city's economic development.
Someone with issues must have a grudge against the mayor and council. Sounds mental.
ReplyDeleteWhat is wrong with the person who keeps ranting that people are unemployed on council? It's the most bizarre thing I have ever read on this blog.
ReplyDeleteThe interesting thing about the last 2 comments is that the person did not say they disagreed with the unemployment concern and if they did, rather than defending their point of view they resorted to name calling and attempts to tarnish that persons reputation.
ReplyDeleteIt is sad that this is all they have to talk about.
Oh and by the way, if that is the most bizarre thing they have read on the blog, they need to read it more often.
Let's act like addults. The kidergarten classes are full.
Thomas,
ReplyDeleteHow do we know the unemployment comment is accurate in each of its five claims? Who would be in the position to know the specific work histories for the mayor and all of the council members?
Maybe one of their own? Maybe the one who includes himself or herself in #5?
And what logical sense does it make? Kirby Wilbur was unemployed for a while. Does that make him incompetent too?
Let's see this individual step up and support the claims and not be anonymous about it.
Dan
I tend to agree a little with the person who is concerned about unemployed city council members.
ReplyDeleteIf the city council member owned their own business and it failed, then one does have to wonder how sharp their sense of the needs of the consumers is, as well as how well they managed financial resources. In this case, it does make me question their qualifications to make similar decisions for an entire community.
If the council member worked for one of the many companies in the area and the poor economy led to layoffs, that is more understandable to me. As long as they are looking for work to support themselves and any dependents they have then I have no problem voting for them.
The art school isn't closed, my daughters go to it. The council person who co-owned it now has her own studio. My daughters are on the wait list to go there when they are older.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the point of spreading false rumors? Kathie
Having a someone like Skyler Haneon on the council would be "interesting," indeed. The consensus in my neighborhood is that he is a bully. We got an attack piece on John Durant and Ann Laughlin and he went after these people making up lies. It was something I didn't want my kids to see in our community. A neihbor said Hanson also attacked laughlin online going after her residency because she had protection orders against her husband and wasn't living in the same house. If he is willing to put details about a council member who is serving the residents including him up online to attack her or try to embarass her away, that's just NOT what we need on the council. We really need people who want to work together and who have a shred of humanity and decency left!
ReplyDeleteSo it appears that there are stong feelings on both sides of this issue.
ReplyDeleteI am still waiting to hear from Skylar Hansen about what his plans are. Will he put his name into the ring and use his experience to help Duvall or have his actions in the past made him unable or unwilling to help his community in this way?
i agree with both Dan and Kathie. It looks like someone is engaging in an attempt at character assassination of every elected official in Duvall except one. I think I can put a name to each one referred to only by number.
ReplyDelete#1 is referring to Councilmember Brudnicki. Kathie is correct, she sold out her half of the Northwest Art Center to her business partner several years ago and opened her own successful studio.
#2 refers to Councilmember Walker. She is currently continuing in her forestry business and as a consultant to a King County agency.
#3 refers to Councilmember Gill and, of course, Mayor Ibershof. Gary Gill previously worked for Safeway and is now employed as a plant manager for an Eastside manufacturer. The Mayor was previously employed by Massachusetts Mutual Insurance and is now an executive with Waste Management.
#4 though vague is I believe referring to Councilmember Ockerlander. Amy is continuing in a new position with Snohomish County Administration.
There is an unnumbered reference to this year's Mayor Pro Tem, Councilmember Cattin. Gerard recently completed a lucrative consulting contract and was planning on taking several months off from work to focus on family, outside interests and his City Council duties. However, his skills are in such demand that he has recently been offered and has accepted a new position in the information technology industry earlier than he had planned.
#5 leaves only Councilmember Edwards as the last current elective office holder and seems designed to make her appear somehow separate and better than her fellows. in fact, during the past year Vicki expressed concern about keeping her job at Microsoft but was transferred from one department to another instead.
In my opinion the anonymous writer has presented a pointless comment filled with misinformation. There seems to be no shortage of competent individuals making decisions about how our tax dollars are spent. It's no surprise to me that "anonymous" lacked the character to put his or her name to it.
Thomas, Dan directed several questions to your attention. Why don't you take the time to answer them?
John
John,
ReplyDeleteThe information you provided reads like a homeland security background check. While I appreciate your guesses on which councilmember the comment was referring to, I really dont have anything to add to the discussion as I did not write the comment.
As far as answering Dan's questions, here are my answers for whatever they are worth.
1. How do we know the unemployment comment is accurate in each of its five claims? I do not know how accurate the claims are. Just as I do not know how accurate your statements are. I can only trust that the person making the comment would attempt to be honest.
2.Who would be in the position to know the specific work histories for the mayor and all of the council members? After reading your comments I would say you are. Other than that I do not know.
3. Maybe one of their own? Possibly. I do not know
4. Maybe the one who includes himself or herself in #5? Possibly. I do not know
5. And what logical sense does it make? I don't pretent that all comments by all participants are logical and well thought out.
6. Kirby Wilbur was unemployed for a while. Does that make him incompetent too? The word incompetent was not used in the post that Dan was commenting on. It would seem that from what the comment says that Kirby would not a candidate that the person would be happy with.
I re-read all of the comments under this post. I am most impressed with those written by Skylar Hansen, Bart and Dan, who all wrote only about issues and facts. I noticed the others who signed their first names also wrote worthwhile comments. Those who totally hid their identities seemed to either have no interest in facts or wrote stuff as facts that just doesn't seem as believable. They just sound angry at local government officials, and at Skylar Hansen for exercising his free speech rights by participating in the elective process. Even spelling his name right seemed challenging for most of them.
ReplyDeleteA very interesting post, I think. Kathie
A little while ago I restricted the comments to only those who signed in with their real name (like Bart does). Very few people commented. It appears that they all enjoyed their annonymity. Even those who used names that were their "real" names didnt post.
ReplyDeleteWhile I would love to have everyone actually post their names, it appears that they really are more interested in scoring points and ranting then they are about taking responsibility for what they say.
As a side note this included Mr. Hansen, John, Dan etc. Unless of course they are all sharing a single computer.
It truly is amazing what technology can tell you.
I am going to break the rules but before I do I want to say my two cents about who I want for city council. I don't know their name but if I saw the candidate I would know. It would be the person raising children in our community. It would be the person who pushes strollers on our sidewalks and knows where they are needed and doesn't want to build them just "because." It would be someone that walks their dog on our trails and sits at our parks benches and loves what is here and knows we aren't meant to have it all at once. It is someone who will treat our city's budget like their grocery budget and not buy organic because it’s trendy or filet when they can't afford it. Someone that takes their children to story time at the library and for a special treat sits in the kiddie section at Duvall Books. Someone who's picture is on the wall at CC's. Someone that knows teriyaki is not Korean would be nice too.
ReplyDeleteHere is where I break the rules...
Kathie, Sometimes when people's actions and motives are questioned by the police outside your home or you see people sleeping in cars in public places or associating with people known to be of questionable moral character we treasure our anonymity as a means of maintaining our family's safety. I have commented on here several times and have signed my name but tonight- I think I'll leave it off. The next post I make, when I'm not breaking the rules, I promise I'll put it back!
Kathie,
ReplyDeleteYou should encourage Skylar to apply for the open position. If he has the experience andthe good ideas then he should put his name on the line for the community. Unless he doesn't really care and is just trying to stir the pot. I am questioning his motives since he still won't answer the question about whether he is going to apply for the open position.
Fred
I'm guessing that more than one person will apply for the open position. The deadline is the end of February and people usually wait to see who steps forward first. I don't seen any reason why Mr. Hansen would announce his intentions on this blog. It's not friendly territory for him (I'm sure he knows that) and is no advantage in the process. I think he showed some class by including his views in the discussion when his name came up. Some of you clearly dislike him for his past campaign activities but we need a tough person to replace Glen Kuntz. Glen knew how to say no to developers and others who want our tax dollars for their own benefit and I think Mr. Hansen would do the same.
ReplyDeleteTo "Anonymous" above who responded to "Kathie" - your post is BRILLIANT! Someone who had that kind of connection with Duvall and had that sort of fiscal responsibility and moral integrity would have my vote for certain.
ReplyDeletePeople like Hanson, who authored hateful mail against a council member and another person who threw his hat in to run a campaign for what he believed in (the very things you "Anonymous" mention in your post above "Fred"), don't belong in public office. Too many of this kind of person winds up "charming" the voters and getting elected - the voters realize too late that the nice things they said when they were seeking your vote weren't at all what they intended to do. And follow-through and commitment are everything - in family, in business, and in elected office.
Can we all agree on that?
"Class." Yes, right. Skylar Hanson is one "classy" dude. :)
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, he also needs "integrity, honesty, morality and a touch of civility" to get elected in this town - all of which he is lacking (fact: actions speak louder than words). He may get appointed but getting elected would be tough since he has a hard time hiding his true colors.
I got such a laugh out of the last two comments! Here you have two people who won't even put their own names after what they have to say accusing a person they probably haven't even met of lacking integrity, honesty, morality, civility, follow through and commitment. And they have the gall to accuse someone else of being hateful!!!
ReplyDeleteI don't know Mr. Hansen myself either, so I judge him by the two comments he made. The five principles he believes makes for a good council person sound like excellent advise. He is able to write his thoughts clearly and comes across to me as knowledgable and more than a few IQ points smarter than his critics.
I would trust him to spend my tax dollars wisely if he gets on our town council. Kathie
Kathie- you should get to know him better. I have met skylar. I have seen him stand on street corners with adulterers and abusive men. I have seen him sleeping in trucks with campaign signs and I have seen him being questioned by Duvall police off our main streets. My friends have reported seeing him in their neighborhood kicking over his competitors campaign signs. This is enough for me. I would not trust him with anything. Am I civil when I see him- of course. Would I throw water on him if he were on fire, of course, but want my council to appoint him to a position- NO! In fact they would loose my vote if they supported him. He is passionate to a fault. signed, The rule breaker
ReplyDeleteKathie,
ReplyDeleteI know Skylar and have worked with him on a campaign. I have a great deal of experience dealing with him.
Here is my experience.
He has supported most councilmembers until they disagree with him. He then will start to harass and pester then with repeated emails and will go to great lengths to destroy their character.
He started a non profit for the sole purpose of opposing 2 former city council candidates. (not supporting just opposing). The non profit he started then put out a flyer with lies about these candidates that he hand delivered to homes in town.
If you are interested in the type of things he does, please do not just take my word for it. please make a public records request at city hall for the emails he has sent to city councilmembers. In these emails you will see where he has lied to councilmembers and continually harssed them.
Or you could look at the Seattle Times articles that talk about how he filed a complaint with the elections department against a former councilmember and as part of this complaint put information about a protection order this councilmember had against their spouse. This included the councilmembers address and other personal information which was previously sealed by the court.
He will do anything and harm anyone to get his point across and to get his way.
But again, please do the research yourself.
Wow. If that is true, I really need to take a second look. I havewaited to comment on this because all I saw was a bunch of opinions. It appears that there are facts to back it up.
ReplyDeleteThomas, do you have any of these documents? Can you prove what you are saying?
Dave
Dave,
ReplyDeleteYes I can. I have copies of several emails from Skylar that I have obtained from a public records request. In them I can prove all the statements I have made above.
As I said I have known Skylar for a long time. He is not the man that he first appears to be.
My prediction is that we will talk a big game and continue to make himself sound like he is very knowledgable and experienced but he will not actually apply for the open seat. He will, of course, come up with some comment about how he isn't a politician or he can better serve the community by not running or something of the like. But in all honesty, he will not run because it would require him to take some responsibility for his actions and for the way he has treated the Councilmembers. It would show his true colors, which is a very unattractive palate.
If you are interested in seeing these documents please let me know. My email address is goneright@live.com
Well, Thomas (Rob Millard), you seem to be the one revealing your true colors.
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you have the integrity to explain on your blog why you are so bitter against Mr. Hansen? Could it be that the two council candidates he supported in the last election (Elizabeth Walker and Amy Ockerlander) defeated your two candidates (Anne Laughlin and John Durant) because Skylar just plain out-worked and out-smarted you? Or does it make you feel better to use him as a scapegoat because you were such an incompetent campaign manager for John that you missed the deadline to get his candidate information into the voter's pamphlet, costing him many votes?
Apparently you are so eager to slander him that ou also think it is appropriate to allow anonymous writers to state on your blog such garbage as he "stands on street corners with adulters and abusive men." (I think people at City Hall will recognize the author of that comment.)
Rob, thanks for portraying yourself as the seedy and spiteful little man that you are. It is obvious to me that you are motivated by a need to feel important and influential, rather than by an interest to work for the benefit of our community.
I hope that Mr. Hansen is still reading the comments under this post. I think you have opened yourself to a lawsuit.
Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteI appreciate your deep insights into my life and motivations. Perhaps if you knew me better you would see that your assumptoins are far from the truth. As a token of good faith I posted your comments and will answer your questions.
I have explained why I dislike Skylar. Please read the posts above. I could care less who he supported in the last election and the reasons I dislike him have nothing to do with that. Infact Councilmember Ockerlander and I have talked many times and have discussed a variety of issues. There is no bad blood between myself and Councilmember Ockerlander or Councilmember Walker.
John missing the deadline was a failure to email the statement. I did not write and was not responsible for that failure, although I will take responsibility for it as I was working with him at the time.
I think it is appropriate for people to post that they have seen him on the street corner with "audulters and abusive men" because it is true. There were 35 people on that corner who saw it and I have a picture of it. He worked with the estranged spouse of a former councilmember who was committing adultery and who had a protection order against him for physically assaulting his spouse.
Perhaps a little investigation on your part would be well worth the effort.
As far as a lawsuit, I appreciate your free legal advice. And I will value it about as much as I paid for it.
At least I have the integrity to put my full name to my comments. Perhaps next time rather than assuming you know what my motives and reasons are, you should investigate or even ask rather than making wild accusations and assumptions.
One more thing. I am very concerned about what happens in my community. Because I live outside the city limits I am unable to volunteer for many of the positions available to those within the city limits. One of the best things I can do is to inform the citizens so they can make better choices. If that choice includes a vote for or against Skylar Hansen then the people should know what kind of man they would be voting for.
You know what I find interesting is that the anonymous poster did not actually defend Skylar or his record. They only attacted Thomas. Perhaps even they know that the information about Skylar is more accurate than they care to admit.
ReplyDeleteIs anyone going to dispute the validity of the claims made by Thomas or are they just going to attack his character and try to frighten him with potential lawsuits?
It really is disapointing that all you can do is attack someone when you have clearly lost the argument.
Paul
I also hope Mr. Hansen is monitoring this conversation. I want to hear him defend himself against the claims Thomas has made. If the claims are untrue than I want Thomas to explain himself. If they are true then I want those who support Mr. Hansen to quit attacking Thomas and his credibility. Show a little intellectual integrity! Frank R.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure Councilmembers Ockerlander (who you have attacked on the issue of abortion with your blog) and Walker will be amused by your characterization of having a positive relationship with them.
ReplyDeleteI would encourage you to call Councilmember Ockerlander and ask her.
ReplyDeleteYes it is true I strongly disagree with her position on abortion but we still communicate in a positive manner.
A difference in opinion does not require either of us to be discourteous to each other.
I realized I failed to address Councilmember Walker in my last post.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous made the assumtion that we have a "positive relationship."
My statement said Thereis no bad blood between us. I clearly do not agree with Councilmember Walkers positions on many issues and I have addressed those both here and in email form between us. She has not been disrespectful to me and I hope that in my correspondence I have not been disrespectful to her.
I find it fascinating that people automatically assume that because I have a different viewpoint than someone else that that we must have a terrible relationship or none at all.
I can only assume that Councilmember Walker and I will not become great friends because we work, play and politic in different circles. That being said, I would never intentionally be disrespectful even while having a difference of opinion.
Thomas, I don't get you. If you disliked this Skylar so much why were you encouraging him to apply for the position? With all due respect, you seem kinda bipolar on this one. Bro
ReplyDeleteBro...
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure I'd read Thomas's / Rob's encouragement of Skylar as supportive - I see it more as a "put up or shut up" kind of response.
Thomas, I looked over the post again. You set three rules, including "be civil". Both of Skylar Hansen's comments were very civil, but eventually your's were completely uncivil to him. Is this your idea of integrity, not even following YOUR OWN RULES? Bro
ReplyDeleteBart, don't you think it would be better if Thomas/Rob answered the question I put to him...himself? I also sent a second short comment observing that Skylar Hansen followed rule #3 by keeping HIS comments "civil", but eventually Thomas/Rob completely ignored his own rule when it came to commenting on Skylar. For some reason Thomas/Rob hasn't posted it yet. Maybe he's choosing not to do so.
ReplyDeleteWhy don't you encourage him to speak to my question for himself. Bro
Bro,
ReplyDeleteSorry I have not posted earlier but I work with a local Cub Scout pack on tuesday and I was busy with them.
Essentially Bart got it right. I have never seen Skylar take responsibility for the actions he has taken. If he were to run he would inevitably be asked about his prior activities. If he chooses not to run then he will show what he really cares about.
As far as being civil, what have I said that was uncivil? Please point out any examples.
Thanks
Thomas, In my thinking making unproven statements that damage a person's reputation is uncivil. For example, you stated as a fact that Skylar Hansen had been seen standing on street corners with adulterers and abusive men. You claimed 35 witnesses had seen him and you have a picture to prove it. But this is still just an incomplete story meant to make him look bad. Where did this happen? What was he doing that would draw the attention of so many people? If a picture says a thousand words, why don't you just post the photo to provide proof of your claim? Skylar Hansen's five suggestions for the next councilmember were interesting. You could have encouraged civil discussion of each point individually for the benefit of your blog. Instead you responded with a put up or shut up attitude. The way he corrected you describing him as "unemployed" was civil and polite. You simply continued to post comments that critisized him more and more. In my mind you failed yourself to live up to your own rule #3. Bro
ReplyDeleteBro,
ReplyDeleteThe event in question happened right before the election last year. It was on the corner of Stevens and Main st. He was standing next to the person in question and holding signs for the same candidate. I am hesitant to post the picture because it has children in it and I do not think they need to have their picture put on the internet. Also I do not have permission from the parents of those children to post it.
So you said that "making unproven statements that damage a persons reputation is uncivil" I wonder if you would consider your statement "you seem kinda bipolar" as uncivil?
I can prove everything I have said and I have taken note that you have not disputed any of those facts. Can you support your assumption that I am bipolar with any evidence?
Perhaps I am not the one being un civil.
I appreciate "Bro's" support of Mr. Hansen but if we are to hold him to the same standard he wants Thomas held to shouldn't we let Skylar defend himself. If I can paraphrase his comments: "don't you think it would be better if" Skylar "answered the question I put to him...himself?
ReplyDeletePaul
Paul,
ReplyDeleteI agree with you but this is the typical Skylar approach. I don't really expect him to follow through and come back and comment.
I will though encourage "Bro" to answer the questions put to him. As a refresher here they are:
So you said that "making unproven statements that damage a persons reputation is uncivil" I wonder if you would consider your statement "you seem kinda bipolar" as uncivil?
I can prove everything I have said and I have taken note that you have not disputed any of those facts. Can you support your assumption that I am bipolar with any evidence?
Perhaps I am not the one being un civil.
Apparently "Bro" has nothing more to say. It is sad because I really wanted to hear what his explanation was for calling Thomas out while he was doing the same thing.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the old saying? "first cast out the beam out of your own eye; and then shall you see clearly to cast out the mote out of your brother's eye."
Paul
I miss a couple days and all hell breaks loose. Reading the posts after missing them for a bit is revealing.
ReplyDeleteThe one thing I find interesting is that Skylar Hansen has not disputed any of the allegations that Thomas has made. For me that tells the whole story.
Fred
From what I can see Skylar is a citizen who cares, shows up at meetings and a brilliant thinker. It is a shame that he is being attacked.
ReplyDeleteDebbie
Debbie,
ReplyDeleteIt is true that he occasionally comes to council meetings. However he is not being attacked. Everything I have posted on this site is the truth, and yes I can provide proof for it all.
Calling him out for poor behavior is no more attacking him than correcting a child for poor behavior is attacking them. People need to hear the truth. Sometimes honest criticism is the best way to help someone change to more acceptable behavior.
I just have to ask - at what point did disagreeing with someone become uncivil or an attack?
ReplyDeleteWell day 2 of no comment from "Bro" has begun. I can't say I am suprised but I was just hoping he would have had the intellectual honesty to actually address the questions put to him.
ReplyDeleteI see this same issue with many on the left of the political spectrum. They are all up in arms about the "violent rhetoric" ofthe right but they are totally fine talking about returning Clarence Thomas to slavery or stringing him up and no one complains about that.
Paul
For a guy (Millard) who promotes civility in discussion (Point 3, be civil), you sure demonstrate hypocrisy by jumping into the gutter. Your attacks on anyone and everyone are quite personal and often completely misguided (and some above libelous). Sadly, this is not a forum for discussion, it is your forum for self promotion. And even though I still espouse solid conservative beliefs and principles, you are becoming less credible to me.
ReplyDeleteCan you provide any examples where I have not backed up anything I have said with documentation? Of course not. I continue to choose to post comments that challenge me because I value the discussion.
ReplyDeleteAnd if you want to talk credibility, next time put your name to your comments. It is too easy to say whatever you like when you do not have to be responsible for your comments.
So again I ask, do you have any examples of my "completely misguided" "attacks"?
Oh where oh where has my little "Bro" gone? oh where oh where can he be?
ReplyDeleteI guess lost in the land of no resposibility for his comments.
Paul
I learned a new phrase recently that ties in nicely with the general theme of the latest comments on this thread. It's a little long, but I thought it was well worth the read given the number of times people drop by, say something, get flamed for their post by someone else, and then we end up arguing the quality of a persons character instead of the substance of their idea.
ReplyDelete"Argumentum Ad Hominem" (Mostly copied from http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/person.html)
Argumentum ad Hominem (abusive and circumstantial): the fallacy of attacking the character or circumstances of an individual who is advancing a statement or an argument instead of trying to disprove the truth of the statement or the soundness of the argument. Often the argument is characterized simply as a personal attack.
The fallacy draws its appeal from the technique of "getting personal." The assumption is that what the locutor is saying is entirely or partially dictated by his character or special circumstances and so should be disregarded.
Informal Structure of ad Hominem
- Person L says argument A.
- Person L's circumstance / character is not satisfactory.
- Argument A is not a good argument.
Some examples of this:
- A prosecutor asks the judge to not admit the testimony of a burglar because burglars are not trustworthy.
- Francis Bacon's philosophy should be dismissed since Bacon was removed from his chancellorship for dishonesty.
- Prof. Smith says to Prof. White, "You are much too hard on your students," and Prof. White replies, "But certainly you are not the one to say so. Just last week I heard several of your students complaining."
- I can't see that we should listen to Governor Smith's proposal to increase the sales tax on automobiles. He has spent the last twenty years in state government and is hardly an unbiased source.
In other words, ad hominem considerations can show motives and can sometimes provide explanation.
These considerations do not demonstrate the truth or falsity of the ideas.
The character of a person is often relevant in consideration of the sincerity of views being offered and so is often relevant to pragmatic decision-making.
Bart,
ReplyDeleteI stand corrected. You are the brilliant thinker, not Skylar. Thanks for calling out the cowardice.
Debbie
Reading the post by Skylar was refreshing and it is that type of thinking that we would want for governance. Lets discuss some of his points.
ReplyDeleteDebbie
Debbie - I assume you mean these points of advice? If so, I agree wholeheartedly.
ReplyDelete1) Commit to being fiscally conservative with the taxpayers' dollars as the #1 priority. Given Duvall's limited revenues there is simply no other choice.
2) Recognize that you will be holding a non-partisan office. Small town policy issues often can't be effectively decided on a purely R or D basis. If you take the seat with the conviction that your political ideology--whether it be on the right or the left--will provide all the right answers without any other thought on your part, then you will eventually look like a fool often enough that your more pragmatic Council colleagues will ignore what you have to say.
3) When you find yourself faced with a difficult policy decision, give more consideration to what the choice will likely mean for the town five or ten years in the future rather than just agreeing with the immediate political pressure.
4) Learn quickly that when it come to developers it is your job to look out for the interest of local taxpayers. Whether the housing business is good or bad they will beg you to subsidize the new roads, parks, sewer hookups, etc., then threaten to leave if you don't. Don't worry. Duvall has a good portion of the available building lots in King County. Developers will be back and Duvall will eventually build out--without the need for taxpayer subsidies. Glen Kuntz stood firm on this issue.
5) Work respectfully with the city's staff. They are not your underlings. But also remember that it is the primary duty of the Council to determine policies so that basic services are delivered to the citizens at the most efficient cost.
I'd say that number 1 applies to every single government position anywhere in the world. Sadly, people get into politics and see the multi-million dollar budgets and forget that spending even $100 more than the budget has available is not fiscally wise, no matter how little of a percentage that amount is.
Likewise, I think there is some great wisdom in point 2 - but perhaps in areas not intended. My advice to any politician is to be extremely careful about just blindly following the party line. This shows that you are unable to think for yourself, or take independant action - not desirable traits in anyone who wishes to lead or to serve others.
I'd append a few sentences to point 3 - Forget about the next election. Do what is right for the long term success of your constituents and the surrounding regions (even if they are outside of city limits). We will see and recognize that you are doing things without thinking of yourself and respect you for that.
I see point 4 as a subset of point 1 and point 3. One of my favorite examples is developers who want to install small parks with the houses, and then ask the city to take over maintenance. Over the life of the park, the developers contribute only a small percentage of the total cost of ownership. This kind of development subsidization is absolutely irresponsible.
Point 5 is simple good manners. Anyone who sees paid staff as beneath the notice or respect of elected officials is in dire need of a lesson in humility. We all get dressed one pants leg at a time. We all want to do well and succeed in our endeavors. We all want to live comfortably. There is absolutely nothing about being an elected official that makes the official better than anyone else, or their needs more important than others. In fact, I'd bet that the paid staff will outlast the elected officials in many locations around the world since they don't have to win the hearts and minds of the voters every election.
Bart,
ReplyDeleteInteresting example about the neighborhood park. I agree that the city can't afford to take over maintenance of the parks. What is your solution? Many neighborhoods have the neighborhoods take over the maintenance through small home owner association dues. I assume you don't mean that developers should indefinitely pay for the maintenance of all parks in all neighborhoods they build for the life of the neighborhood, but please clarify. I am 100% in agreement with communities maintaining their own parks.
Jill
Yes Skylar,
ReplyDeleteDevelopers will be back, but in what way? Look at the Fox Hollow development. The developer is now selling 2000-2600 sq ft houses for $300K or less. Our city is now looking like a low income city like Auburn or Federal Way. It's destroying our property values. This isn't the kind of development I want for my city.
Jill
Thanks for the question Jill,
ReplyDeleteMy suggestion is to not allow the developers to build a park until the city has agreed to assume the maintenance responsibilities after some period of time - perhaps after the first year?
The city should also have veto powers over whether the developer gets to build a park at all. If there is an existing park just a couple of blocks away, then there has to be a good reason why another park is necessary at this location. Many times I feel like the parks were put in so close because sidewalks didn't exist to connect the communities. I would prefer fewer parks with sidewalks to provide access from all of the surrounding communities rather than more frequent parks with less sidewalks.
Jill,
ReplyDeletePerhaps that is the plan. Make the developers lower the value of the homes they offer and make it more fair for everyone. Shouldn't everyone be allowed to live here regardless of their economic ability to pay for the homes they live in?
Bart,
ReplyDeleteDo you live in a neighborhood that has a park? And if you do, how does your neighborhood manage it's park?
I agree with you on being fiscally responsible, and Skylar seems to be an avid supporter of that philosophy.
Debbie
"Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, small minds discuss people." Eleanor Roosevelt
ReplyDeleteAnonymous - great quote!
ReplyDeleteHi Debbie,
I do live in a neighborhood with a private park - to the best of my knowledge no public monies fund it or pay for maintenance. There are two public parks reasonably close - the sports park on Big Rock Road, one on the way up to the high school from 275th. The big drawback to these two is that there is no convenient way to get to them - no sidewalks, inadequate parking, etc...
My children prefer to go play at Taylor park when we go into town for grocery shopping, chiropractor visits, etc.
Thomas,
ReplyDeleteI appreciate the question about affordable housing and I think you just found your next post. No, I don't think all areas should provide affordable housing to accomodate all incomes. I lived in Kent when that was all I could afford and it motivated me to work harder to be able to move to Duvall. Now I'm working harder to some day move to Medina or a similar area. If all areas were forced to provide cheaper housing, I wouldn't have an incentive to work harder to move into a nicer area.
I'd love to get a discussion going on this.
Jill
+1 for making affordable housing a topic. I'd like to expand that to include the concepts of a 50+ gated community, etc. as well.
ReplyDeleteDidn't I see Skylar bikin' over to Pennington's house last week? Wonder what those rascals are up to now.
ReplyDelete